DRC林扬＆黄连金谈“如何建立区块链领域的安全标准和规范”（中英文）

　　

在未来几年里,利用连锁系统技术提高整个社会的生产力是人们所期待的。 当所有这些秩序都处于不舒适的状态时,需要建立一个相应的新体制结构。

先前,刚果民主共和国的创始人林阳曾邀请NU链核聚变链的创始人黄利钦进行深入访谈,与我们分享他们在区链部门标准和规范领域的见解。

刚果民主共和国 金融、科学和技术信息

　　

访谈汇编版本

高端对话:金黄,刚果民主共和国创始人,Linyan & Nucleus链

　　Dialogue:Selina, Founder of DRC & Ken Huang, Founder of NUChain

莱尼扬:

你好,今天非常荣幸邀请 核集群链的创始人王先生

　　Hello, everyone. Today it is our great pleasure to have Ken Huang ,the founder of NUChain as our guest.

你离开你的传统领域的原因是什么? 全都在条条条框框中?

　　We also want to know what motivated you to leave the traditional area that you were familiar, and all in blockchain.

在这一进程中,你的立场和今后发展的方向是什么?

　　How did you position yourself and the direction of your future development in this process?

黄莲金:

我一直认为我应该创业 自己做点什么

　　Yes,actually I have always thought I should start a business.

我认为对连锁的更大需求在于新开办的公司。

　　Also the demand for the application of blockchain technology is higher among thestart-ups.

我在中国的地位只会帮助大领导人,大公司,而不是小公司。

　　By contrast, my previous experiences can only help the top management in bigcompanies such as Huawei rather than the small enterprises.

因为程序太多,他都是中央集权的, 他都是流程驱动的,我们都是IBM的。

　　There are too many processes and the processes themselves arecentralized. Actually Huawei is process-driven. We all use the IBM process.

莱尼扬:

这是造成我 " 全内 " 连锁系统的原因之一,它降低了中间成本,提高了整个社会的生产力。

　　I agree, and that's also one of the reasons I came out (of Big Four) to all inblockchain. Decentralization will greatly improve the productivity of the wholesociety in the future we very much look forward to.

这是一个我们非常期待的未来世界,在一个一切秩序都井然有序的新经济中,我们希望,在新机制到来时,相应的标准和规范将到位。

　　We welcome reformations and hope a new ecosystem will be set up with new standards.

黄莲金:

其中最困难的部分是,如何在其中找到固体资产的唯一真实真实反映。

　　The toughest is making unique, authentic reflections of the solid, fixed assets ofthe real world.

链条的世界现在是DIGITAL, 虚拟的。一旦你把链条打开, 你可以保证数据是可追踪的和非制造的。

　　We want to ensure that assets are traceableand tamperproof via the tokenized data on the top once they are tokenized.

但数据在上链之前的真实性并不确定。 很难弄清楚。 我正在做的是吃这个硬骨头。

　　But it remains a problem how to tell if the data to be tokenized is authentic andthat’s what NUChain of which I’m the founder are working on.

我们的重点是处理协议层,界定身份、价值、从协议中搜索、转让。

　　Our focus is to address it in theprotocol layer, setting up a network protocol that can define, query andtransfer the identity and value.

帮助这些产品链, 所以我们要设计一个芯片, 将协议写进传感器。这能解决什么问题?

　　To help asset tokenization, we designed akind of chips that store our protocols and can be installed in the sensors. Whatproblem can it solve?

例如,有些植物需要排污,监管者需要安装传感器。 目前,这种传感器可以在传输数据时被假冒、拦截和修改。

　　For example, some factories discharge sewage and the authorities make them installthis sensor. This sensor for now can falsify data through interception or theftin the transmission process.

在这种情况下,如何优化在议定书一级很重要。

　　In this case it is crucial how we make use of the protocol to get the real data.

莱尼扬:

我们最近作出一切努力,把重点放在一系列市场上资产上链的项目上,并发出“关于利尼安资产的十次询问”,召集专家讨论这些问题,包括资产的独特性、真实性和确定性、如何确定其有效性和价值的问题。

　　Very good, this problem also concerns usdoing the due diligence in different asset tokenization projects. We even addressed in the “LinYang’s 10 questions on asset tokenization” where we discussed with severalexperts the authenticity and ownership of the assets, and value assessment.

那么,我们今后如何解决这些问题? 上链数据如何保证准确绘制实体资产图?

　　Then how do we solve these problems? How canwe ensure that the assets and entities are truly related?

黄莲金:

其中一些问题需要协议解决,其中一些问题仍然难以解决,不是由一方决定如何界定价值,而是协商一致的进程。

　　Yeah, the problem can only be partlysolved through the protocol. There has to be a consensus on how to define andassess the value.

权威是谁?权力和身份是不同的,身份是独特的。这是很好的,你的10个要求我看看。

　　And the ownership determination you mentioned is different from defining identity asidentity is unique. This is a good question and I’d like to see the questionstoo.

莱尼扬:

资产上链项目事实上是最难以解决的,谁能确保该链在有形资产的真实、准确和有效条件下建立?

　　Asset tokenization in fact is the very first and the last problem to solve. The dataabout the tangible assets must be authentic and accurate.

在数据链之后,所谓的不可轮换性是不可改变的,如果垃圾数据链没有动力,那将是一场灾难。

　　The tamperproof we say should be addressed in the next step of tokenization as it’dbe a disaster if garbage data is tokenized and tamperproof.

在每个点,包括技术链路和前端数字资产上链路,应用场景只能使用,使用价值才能产生。

　　Only after the success of each steps regardless of technical part or data validationand tokenization has been achieved, can this application scenario producesvalue.

黄莲金:

我非常同意,许多人说连锁履约可能是一个重要问题。

　　Can not agree more. People say performancemay be a very important issue to block chain technology.

但其中一些可能是低频、中频, 比如每秒数百次的TPS交易, 与拜占庭容忍度, 或DOS。

　　But some transactions might be in low orintermediate frequency, say, hundreds of TPS transactions per second. Then wecan utilize Byzantine fault tolerance, or DPOS.

真正的问题是如何把实物资产链起来,把东西固定在链子上, 上链就像液态。然后液体在气化它, 它是一个破碎的 Token。

　　The real problem is how to tokenize the physical products, physical assets, thesetangible things. After being tokenized the assets are like liquefied, then gasified,and then we can further divide the tokens.

将不可分割的实体变成可分割的实体,这是块链的好处。

　　An indivisible tangible thing becomesdivisible. This is the benefit of the blockchain.

但坚固的状态如何将它变成资产是非常困难的。

　　However it is difficult to make atangible thing an intangible asset.

我们现在正在达成的比较一般性的协议基本上涉及一些相对领域。

　　The reexit some common protocols and what we are developing is a common protocol thatcan bring answers to the tokenization of tangible asset in certain areas.

但是有某种分层, 比如房地产如何进入链条, 我们需要另一个交易, 我们可以把它分成BNPs, 灯光协议 来引导小型的物理产品。

　　Regarding some area segmentations, such as real estate, we may need another protocol. Forexample we can divide it into BNP using some light protocol lite, to guide thetokenization of some small physical product.

莱尼扬:

封锁链是一个共同建设过程,但封锁链行业的标准和规范是什么?

　　So blockchain is a collaborative building process, but what exactly the standardsand norms of blockchain?

如何做到这一点? 在这种权力下放的生态中,社区应该由一个中央监管机构领导,以制定标准规范?

　　How to establish it in such a kind ofcentralized ecosystem and should there be a centralized regulatory to monitorthe standards of the transactions undergoing in the community.

黄莲金:

中央机构或政府机构制定标准为时尚早。

　　For now it is still early to let thecentral regulatory set up this standard.

政府往往在达成社区共识后通过,这是一件好事。

　　Sometimes a consensus amongst the communitymight eventually be adopted by the Government, which is a good thing.

我们可以提及一些传统的因特网安全做法。

　　We can still refer to some cases of thesuccessful practice of traditional internet security.

该项目决定,所有事情都不应分散管理,但是,如果不做任何决定,这也是个问题。

　　That the project team are decidingeverything is not centralization while if they can't decide anything wouldstill be a problem.

那么,我们如何找到平衡?

　　So how to balance it ?

第二,在确定权力时,不应只考虑项目方面,还应考虑社区。

　　Now when you set the permissions it isnot only the project team that we need to take into consideration, but also thecommunity.

如何平衡?很少有人考虑这些问题。

　　So how can we balance it?Right now ,still very few people are considering theseissues.

莱尼扬:

我们不能离开它,但它不是像传统系统, 它的集中,集中管理。

　　We won’t give total authority to the community but we won’t act as a traditionalcentralized authority either.

我们还正在建立这样一个权力下放的自治组织,我们将就如何建立多中心、决策委员会和社区投票达成共识,这最终将反映在自动执行智能合同中,重要的是确定能力的问题,这实际上是一连串集团的精神。

　　DRC is also on our way to build this kind of distributed, autonomous regulationswith multiple centers. In DRC consensus are reached by community votes. We arededicated to adhering to the spirit of blockchain.

黄莲金:

在智能合同领域,有一个不可能的三角形, 分散的,安全的,功能的。它越复杂,问题就越大。

　　In intelligence there is also an impossible trinity theory, i.e. centralization,security and function. The more comple, the more problems there must be with security.

要成为中心,对项目方面来说肯定不安全。如何在安全方面集中管理?

　　you want decentralization which almost means the project is not that secure. Howcan you achieve secure decentralization?

莱尼扬:

块链是一种艺术,而块链项目的创造就像艺术的创造。

　　That's why I see blockchain an artcraft. You create a blockchain project, you get anpiece of art.

黄莲金:

现在,有时在项目管理中, 我会有一半的私人钥匙, 然后我们都把它放在保险箱里。

　　This is the same with the project management. We both hold a half of the private keyand put them in the safe.

莱尼扬:

这是一个多签字方法,可以从加密中看出,这是一个有趣的创新,证明有一个安全系统,有一个加密分析,专门研究加密能否抵御黑客攻击的问题。

　　It's like the multiple signatures in management process which proves highly secureagainst hackers’ attacks in cryptography.

黄莲金:

数字资产的安全是黑客袭击的最大目标之一。

　　The digital assets are the main target of the hackers.

莱尼扬:

数字资产,钱包,交换。

　　Yes,the digital assets, digital wallet and exchange platforms

你认为需要将身份识别引入链条产业吗?

　　But there's a critical issue here - the identity validation. do you think it’snecessary to bring into the blockchain ?

黄莲金:

这在管制、遵守、KYC和着陆申请方面是必要的,否则很难说有大规模着陆申请,如果有大规模着陆申请,必须注意。

　　It is a must to solve the identityvalidation issue in terms of supervision, compliance and KYC especially formassive application.

证明自己是我自己, 但我不需要知道隐私。

　　And Zero-Knowledge Proof, that is I can prove my identity without personalinformation leakage, must be studied, improved and applied. That's whereeverybody is heading.

当李笑的时候,他做了很多泡菜 发现他们被骗了, 他们是聪明的, 他们真的想看到着陆的项目, 他们需要投资者, 投资机构需要注意, 除了投资之外,它还依赖于投资后服务, 投资后服务是他们如何帮助项目实际运作, 并真正实现输卵管的。

　　The direction of the whole industry iskind of wrong right now. But after the leaked audio of Xiaolai Li, more peoplerealized that this was not a fairytale and would be more careful aboutinvesting projects . So for the institutional investors, it's very important tonot just invest a project, but also to provide services to the team so theycould actually create value.

莱尼扬:

我非常同意,正因为如此,刚果民主共和国呼吁并倡导制定行业标准和规范,特别是安全领域的标准和规范。

　　I agree, that's why DRC is trying to make standards, even a Global blockchain securityAlia.

黄莲金:

包括一些你熟悉的公司, 知道如何创造, 慢雾,低重量, 而且他们也在这方面做出一些贡献。

　　I think you are familiar with companies like Chuangyu, Manwu, Jiangwei right?They are contributing in this field too.

莱尼扬:

这也是我们生态的共同建设者,我们邀请了这样一个安全审计公司参加生态,我们邀请象你这样的专家不仅参加讨论,而且真正探讨一套标准、准则,呼吁开展更多的项目和准则。

　　Yes,they are also contributors forosystem of DRC, we are inviting companies likethem and you to make a standard in the industry together.

黄莲金:

这太过分了,很多项目都需要规范。 我们做什么, 不管是受监管的还是安全的, 我做什么? 行业标准是什么? 产业标准是什么? 您对钱包有什么看法? 当你在交换时你做什么? 或者,从安全的角度来说, 你想签署钱包吗? 您什么时候需要多个签名?

　　Indeed,projects are calling for standards and regulations about how to handle wallets,what to do about exchanges, when to apply multi-signature etc.

莱尼扬:

这些都是真正的问题,你可以谈论一个简单的理论:钱包管理,多个签名,什么场景?谁能拥有这些特权?如何选择这些人和避免集中控制是值得讨论的事情。

要求更多产业界加入我们的审议。 在这一过程中,将就我们的标准、准则应该包括哪些内容、谁应该建立这些标准、准则应该如何建设等问题形成一致的看法。

　　For example the management ofmulti-signature wallets, how to avoid centralized control of the wallet? Andthe same problem of nodes? We need to gather the experts in the field.We should reach a consensus after in deepdiscussions.

黄莲金:

安全必须超越第三方审计,我也有这项建议,项目本身必须经过审查。 要求第三方调查它是不够的,因此肯定会发现许多安全问题,项目必须完成。

　　The audition of security mechanic in certain project is a must, not only by theproject team, but also should by the third-party experts.

莱尼扬:

刚果民主共和国由一家守则审计专业公司编写季度审计报告,甚至进行多次审计。

　　Yes,in DRC we got code auditions from several third-parties every season and everymajor stage to avoid mistakes from any party.

风险预防必须如此,但已经发生的风险也必须如此,我们决不能把其他人遇到的风险当作笑话,好象我们是在看热点新闻,技术官僚们会有不能被考虑的东西。

　　We always say better safe than sorry and we must learn from the failures. Everyonecould make mistakes.

黄莲金:

是的,因为人不是上帝。

　　Yes,even god makes mistakes.

莱尼扬:

这就是我们打算组成一个安全联盟,以便你们在困难时期找到专家,在创新时期找到更多的建议。

　　That's another reason why we are building a Alia , so everybody could get help whenproblems occur and advice is needed.

拥有货币的经济,像一个国家一样,有权投硬币,因此任何行为都应该有敬畏感。

　　When your project is issuing tokens, it's like running a nation and issuing fiats, youshould think carefully for every move.

黄莲金:

拥有一种虔诚感是件好事。在一个权力控制系统中, 安全线上的工程师如果感到安全, 就必须对IT系统保持警惕。

　　Think carefully is where Huawei does well. The security staffs must be careful withthe system, if you don't take security seriously, you got problems.

莱尼扬:

我想我们现在什么都谈不了 但我们不能安全

　　Safety first.

黄莲金:

这就是我一直在谈论的。许多系统已经安装, 资金已经发送, 资金被混入, 安全得到了保障,网络风险非常高, 有些项目突然变成零。

　　What happens in many projects is that ICOand token issuance first, security second.

莱尼扬:

接下来,我们希望能够继续进行访谈,然后继续取得和融入更多的共识,我们可以组织定期研究,逐步制定更多的标准,供行业仿效。

　　We hope we could have more discussions like this in the future. Then we could gathermore opinions, reach consensus and build more standards upon discussions.

黄莲金:

很好,值得,我们不这样做

　　This is good, if we don't do it, Americans will do it before us.

莱尼扬:

DCC也愿意充当倡导者、组织者和推动者,我们也愿意为生态发展贡献基金会的一部分资金。 我们主张的监管概念是护送,而不是警察与盗贼之间惩罚的错误,而是渗透监管、程序监管甚至积极主动监管以指导这些项目的规范化进程。

　　DRC is willing to be a motivator of this action and put our resources and moneyinto it. We should accompany with projects rather than act like cops and treatprojects as criminal suspects. Projects need dripping regulations, progressiveregulations, even initiative regulations. In the spirit of blockchain,standards are formed when most of the people think the same.

黄莲金:

这很难,但它需要。

　　Hard to reach but someone need to do it.

莱尼扬:

有必要开始采取主动行动,我认为,越来越多的人更适合一起这样做。

　　Someone initializes it and more partners will join us I believe.

黄莲金:

这样做是有道理的,对于整个链条的发展来说,特别是在我们本国,它确实对链条工业作出了很好的贡献,并促进了该行业的健康和健康发展。

　　That means a lot for the development of blockchain industry, especially in China, toactually pave way for sustainable and healthy development of blockchainindustry.

莱尼扬:

非常感谢大家的全面分享,刚果民主共和国是一个分布式的监管科技平台,致力于开放、透明和自主,

　　Thank you Mr. Huang, thanks for sharing.DRC is a distributed platform of regulation technologies. We believe in open, transparentself-regulation.

希望更多的专业人员将应邀讨论该行业如何能够更好地监管、自我监管、风险控制、透明和健康监管的连锁生态系统,以使更多受过教育的人能够获得更多的专业支持和帮助。 希望更多有知识的人将加入我们的联盟,建设生态。

　　We hope we could have more expertise to share their knowledge , together to find away for controllable and healthy development of blockchain eco-system, to helpanyone who needs our help, to have more allies in our eco-system.

黄莲金:

连锁企业的发展需要监管创新,而刚果民主共和国的做法是一种有意义的尝试,目的是通过为连锁企业建立行业标准,以基于社区的协同作用的形式促进监管创新。

　　Me too, I believe we need creative regulations in blockchain industry. That's whereDRC is doing a great job trying to build a community to make standards forregulations. I wish DRC good luck!